Ascended Mogul + Ultimate Artist


#321

Thanks @Malkuth. It’s been a long road, but usually these depressive episodes I have signal a change coming. So I believe your intuition is correct. Like a death and rebirth cycle. I’ll definitely keep all that in mind when I’m looking for a therapist.

@ExploringAstronaut. It can’t hurt to do so and I’ll try it out. But this isn’t the first time I’ve hit these realizations. I will keep this mentality in mind, but I think it’s only a piece of the puzzle for me. I’m sure it would help, but I’ve had a bad habit in the past of thinking one thing could fix everything and if it wasn’t working I wasn’t trying hard enough vs dealing with a way more complex issue.

@Hannibal Ego state therapy looks promising. Unfortunately I don’t know if I’ll be able to get a therapist who specializes in it. I’ll keep it in mind though.

I guess I’ll have to try to rule out the physical again. I did that a few years back and never found anything conclusive. Hormones, vitamins minerals, all kinds of tests, thyroid, nothing, they couldn’t find any cause. The only thing I did that helped a bit was eliminating gluten from my diet. I’ll never take meds though. I did once out of desperation and they didn’t help in the slightest. Plus after doing research on all of it, it’s incredibly shady. I don’t trust the drug companies or the science behind them.

That was my reason for using subs. I wanted to get to the core psychological reason for this because I could never find a physical one.


#322

Well, exactly. Self love is not a “way to fix something”. It is the first step, no matter which way you choose.


#323

Get the Eufeeling book and read it and do the simple exercises. It’s almost effortless and you’ll retrain yourself to feel good again whenever you want.


#324

One other thing. You may in your journey so far have already come across the Enneagram as a system for understanding people and personal change.

Some of the insights and dynamics that you’re processing and navigating are in line with those associated with Enneagram type 4.

Might be good to check that out.

Enneagram Type 4


#325

This may not help much because I know how compelling our emotions and perceptions can be (my own continue to be). But sometimes when I look at the specific issues that trouble me, they just seem so contrived.

The example that comes to my mind is this: when you’re 4 years old and you get a lollipop or an ice cream, if it drops you may cry like it’s the end of the world. By 7 years later, you’re 11 and a fallen lollipop is not even worth 5 seconds of your thought; BUT…if you’re bullied by two or three 11 year-olds in your class, you may feel that it’s the end of the world. By 7 years after that, you’re 18 and if two or three 11 year-olds insult you, you’ll probably think it’s kind of amusing; BUT… if you can’t go to a high school social gathering or can’t go to your chosen college, it feels like the end of the world. 7 years after that, you’re 25, and you may not really remember the high school gatherings very clearly, and you may have started working so college is in the past; BUT…

and so on, and so on. We just keep upgrading the problems, and forgetting about the old ones. Maybe that basic situation is unavoidable, but it does deserve a fair bit of irony at the very least.

Makes me feel like the judgments and the narratives are somewhat irrelevant. Whatever specific judgments are bothering me, they’ll probably be obsolete in 10 to 20 years. But what remains relevant are NEEDS. Just finding ways to get our needs met. That seems to be it. The rest of it: the labeling, the story-telling, the politics; they’re part of being human, but they’re also part of being stupid. There were points in history when you could have serious social and legal problems just from saying that the Earth seems to orbit the Sun. People would say ‘what a loser!’ and if you took things very seriously, you might go home and say to yourself, ‘What a loser I am! Why do I say crap like the earth flies around the Sun? What’s wrong with me?!’ Nothing’s effing wrong with you. But you do have a need for supportive affiliation with other human beings.

The need is legitimate, but the narratives around the need? Mostly bullshit. That’s why I think it makes more sense to just think about ways to meet your needs, rather than to judge yourself for whether or not they’ve all been met.

People are constantly judging others for having unmet needs. I think this is the dumbest s**t in the world. And I see it all the time. If they saw it in this perspective, they wouldn’t do it. But in the moment, they don’t feel like that’s what they’re doing. They just see a ‘loser’, or a ‘dweeb’, or a ‘weirdo’, or whatever. Anyway, we’ve all done that. But it’s good to rise above it sometimes and see what’s going on. Otherwise, whether you’re a ‘loser’ or a ‘winner’, you’re still a slave. Needs govern our body and emotions. But our consciousness should be governed by insight.


#326

Thanks @Malkuth. It’s funny you mention all that because I had similar thoughts these past few days. It was when I was looping Regeneration. I noticed the stories popping up behind the emotional pain and I found myself getting sucked into them. But then I told myself cut the ties with story, that’s not where the freedom is located. Instead I focused on releasing the emotional energy attached to those events.

I did notice however when a lot of those repressed emotions popped up a part of me was saying “you shouldn’t feel like this”. It took some conscious effort to basically crack open the ball of repressed stuff I had stuffed in there. It’s definitely been a process. But a lot of my feelings of being messed up or screwed up in the head was directly tied to that “shouldn’t be feeling this” state of mind. Regarding having my needs met, validating my own emotions is a big one. After this insight I realized how much of a me vs them mentality I have towards my own emotions. Seeing them as the enemy, something getting in the way or blocking my success vs an actual living part of me that deserves attention.

Also regarding the enneagram. I could never figure out if I was a 4 or 9. I always leaned towards 9 because I tend to detach vs get pulled into my emotions. 4s also tend to want to be noticed? That’s been the exact opposite for me. Needless to say it’s not exactly straight forward, but the 9s desire to maintain peace above all else basically led me to total emotional detachment years ago. My life felt like it was a train wreck and I was just watching it in third person.


#327

Excellent insights! For what it’s worth, these are precisely the types of insights that therapists would support one to achieve. After that, it’s a lot of legwork; generalizing and applying the insights to the constant flow of daily experiences. That’s an ongoing process, and honestly that’s where the real gold is, in my opinion.

Same here. The very first time I read about it, sheesh, two decades ago. I thought it was obvious that I was a 4. Intuitive, artistic, and so on. I thought I was a 4wing 5. But upon further exploration, I decided that I was a 5wing 4. I stayed with that for a bunch of years. I’d been a graduate student and had an intellectual bent and was an introvert. So it was easy to see myself as a 5. Eventually, though, that started to get challenged. I saw how I behaved in relationships, close, long-term relationships. The focus on peace, inner peace, and maintaining balance with others. And so for a few years now, I’ve thought that I’m probably just an artistic, intellectual Nine. That’s where I’ve settled now.

Nowadays, I’m viewing it more dynamically. A set of energies that we move through and draw upon, some more and some less. More than establishing a definitive type, I’ll use it as a key for unlocking the logic underlying particular frames of mind that we tend to fall into.

MBTI is much easier. I’m an INFP and that’s it. But for the enneagram, it’s a little murkier sometimes.


#328

Have to fly out for 10 days for my job again. I’m not as anxious as I usually am, but I’m still dreading the whole thing. I had hoped by this time around AM would have given me the ability to make it though this without being rattled. But it’s a combination of me being introverted, having to be around large groups of people with lots of talking, and dealing with potential problems that may or may not occur. I’ll see what happens. Just wish I could go full don’t give a fuck mode. There’s still a part of me that just has this overly sensitive disposition to what people think of me. If I could get rid of that my life would be 1000x easier.

Also pretty upset I’m missing my friends birthday party he’s having because of this trip. I really hate how this job has made it a responsibility of mine to attend these things even though it’s not what I was hired to do. Pisses me off that they treat this as some privilege as well. Like I should be over the moon that I get to travel. I’d say my work life balance is trash right now because of it. And even though I’m probably not gonna be doing any major work when I’m there, I still have to go to a job for 10 days straight. Fuck that. I can barely make it though 5. Fuck this company.


#329

You’re probably in the midst of your trip now. Wish you a smooth, relatively pain-free time. Hope you find some unexpected gold of some sort in the midst of the whole thing.


#330

Oh it’s been hell. Everything seems to be going wrong for me. But even though I’ve fucked up some stuff I’ve corrected it. But it’s like neverending stress because I never know what bs is lying around the corner. I’m sure evaluating it all after the fact will give me something. But for now I’m so burned out.


#331

Man. Hang in there, bruv.

Seriously rooting for you, over here!


#332

Me too. It’s the roller coaster of life man. It’s okay.


#333

Thanks guys. Got two and a half days left. Have to do some inventory today and I’m hoping I can just chill in the showroom. Been away from my music, working non-stop, surrounded by loud extroverted people, my nerves are so fried. This is not an introvert friendly place


#334

God fucking damnit. I just need to vent. All my life people just want to comment on how quiet I am. I was at dinner with coworkers and they just kept bringing up how quiet I am and how I don’t interact much with the people in the showroom. Well no fucking shit, this isn’t something I want to do. Sometimes I think that’s it’s not that I’m quiet, but the fact that I don’t give a shit how I come across so I just do my own thing that makes me feel comfortable vs modifying my behavior to accommodate others. I mean in all honesty, yeah I’m a little closed off but I’ve got a long history of struggling with that. So maybe I’m not 100% free to do my own thing.

Other people probably think I’m an asshole, but I’m fucking sick of people projecting their own insecurities onto me when I don’t speak much. I honestly feel like I’ve never fit in and most of my difficulties lie in constantly trying too hard to make other people feel comfortable around me.

I still haven’t gotten that rock solid confidence to just be who I am. I still internally cringe when people comment on it. And I still come across as an insecure person that “just needs to loosen up more” because I don’t own who I am naturally.

This is why I self isolate. Because it’s gets really fucking old having to deal with people that just want to constantly compare you to what’s normal.

In other news bought the commander. Haven’t listened yet, but overall all I’ve only been listening to regeneration these past few days. Subs are at a standstill cuz of this trip.


#335

Solidarity.

Clearly you’ve got a lot of the intellectual perspectives and ideas worked out about these issues. But dealing with the physical experience and the emotional reactions to those kinds of situations can be another ball game entirely, even when you know the ‘right’ ideas.

10 days is a long freaking time. And it’s actually surprising to have to spend that amount of time with work colleagues. I have trouble with lunches and meetings, to be honest. I just keep reminding myself to be kind to myself. Remembering that we are literally evolved apes and that this explains a WHOLE LOT of behavior helps too, sometimes. We are highly egocentric and we often are motivated by barely understood (but pretty complex) feelings and have no idea what we’re talking about.

My current job allows me to have a lot of alone time, otherwise, I don’t think I would still be in it. Those days of cubicles and office politics were not fun.

My own strategy over the years has been to understand my way through it. Definitely an introvert’s strategy. It has definitely helped but it’s slow going sometimes. And it’s important to try other ways too.

One thing’s for sure. There are other introverts (or people with some introverted tendencies) in the group you’re in. They’re probably too scared to say anything.

An asshole is someone who shits on you and does mean, harmful things to you. Not someone who’s being quiet.

Hmm…in a way, though, saying ‘you’re so quiet’ implies some level of wary respect. Wanting to know what you’re thinking, as opposed to just blowing you off. Sometimes a quiet smile and a ‘really?’ can go a long way. It really is about their insecurity and about not quite knowing what to do with you. Pain in the ass, sometimes, yes. But also, not really the point. The point is for you to get what you need, to get your own needs met. It’s the inner need and unrest and pain inside of you (or me, or anybody else) that makes other people’s reactions seem so important. Because a lot of times if you’re feeling great, it’s actually pretty easy to ignore what people who are not close to you say or do.

Anyway. Solidarity. And, for what it’s worth, I think you’re on the right track.


#336

Oh, something else that has helped me and that started to happen more and more:

Look at yourself from the outside, as if you were another person. (This is mentally looking at yourself, of course.). Anyway, see yourself as another person, and notice, ‘hey. I really like this guy. Yeah, sure, he’s not perfect. But, please…who the hell is? But I really like this guy and I want his life to work out. I know that he means well.’ (and you do know, because unlike other people, you’re actually privy to all of the thoughts and feelings you’ve had all these years). Just look at him as if he’s someone else, someone outside of you. He’s not the ‘world’s great asshole’, he’s not the ‘World’s Great’ anything. He’s a real person, in the midst of 7 billion other real people; but he’s the one you know best, and most intimately. You’ve seen every up and down, every defeat and success, that he’s had. And you’re rooting for him.

He has not committed genocide. He did not find and eliminate the cure for cancer. He’s just been here like everybody else, born new on the block, growing up trying to figure things out without a manual, and navigating this mysterious life. Trying his best to work it out in this Cosmos. Does he deserve mistreatment? For what? Does he deserve support? Of course!

I could go on, but you get the point. This POV has actually really helped me when the critical voices (whether from without or within) were getting too strong. See him (you) sitting there. In this or that situation. Dealing with whatever. And it’s like: ‘You know, I like this guy. In fact, actually? I f**king love this guy. Not because he’s ‘perfect’ whatever that means, but because I know him. And I’m going to be in his corner til the end.’


#337

Well I’m back from my trip. Last few days I got invited out for drinks by one of the sales reps and his sister who were pretty cool. But it definitely drew up some insecurities. Like “why are these people so nice to me”? I have to admit that when people want to hang out or talk with me my first question on my mind is always why? Second question is always, can I trust them?

From there everyone started talking about their jobs, experience, lives, etc. I gotta be honest I felt like shit. Mostly because I don’t have my own life together. I found myself thinking to myself “oh well I’m a creative person of course I’m not gonna excel in something like sales or computer engineering”. But that’s what I always say to myself, but I’m not all that great with my music either. I’m not really beating myself up over it, but it did sting because I just felt like a complete failure in everything in my life. I suck at meeting people and holding onto relationships, I live mostly in my head and I don’t have a lot of experiences like most people, I don’t have super valuable skills that make me wanted by employers, I can’t afford my own place. I know these are all things I have to work at, but goddammit I feel like I never got a break in life. When I was younger I was anxious about the future, always. And then the future came and then more stuff to be anxious about. When does it end? When can I just be on top of life instead of being buried by it?

It’s easy for me to forget sometimes that what I went through and what I’ve been going through is not the common theme of most people’s lives. And there is no expected level I’m supposed to be at now. Even so, I have trouble letting go of that idea. It weighs on me. I’m 28 and I still feel like a damn kid when I talk to people. A small afraid child. I don’t know what that is. I just feel like I have delayed development or something,


#338

Hi @elementary_vision, I can understand what you are going through as I have been through the same thing in life - being born dyspraxic really had a real impact on my self-confidence and I didn’t take up many many opportunities from young that could have changed my life today.

I am still going through hard times - I guess my life has never been easy, but everyday I know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and I survive everyday with faith. Sooner or later we will get what we want as long as we persist in our faith.

What I want to tell you here is that perhaps you might want to do some questioning about yourself, like who is this “I” that you keep on referring to.

What would you want to be if you can be anything or anybody you want to be?

What would it feel like to be who you really want to be?

In order to get the answers to the question above, you need to realise that our 3-D realities are illusions, and you don’t have to be who you think you are. If you want, no harm being aware of yourself as a successful alpha male getting lots of respect from society and having lots of life experience . What do you lose by imagining that?

And once you realise that there is no past, no future and only the present in which you live, you will know that you can choose who you think you are, and choose who you think you were.

Just my thoughts.


#339

It’s funny, because this wasn’t really your point. But the word that jumped out at me was ‘honest’.

I admire and appreciate honesty; and you’ve got it.

Read the rest of what follows as a poem. It’s definitely not advice. I’m in the middle of this stuff too.

It would be really cool if you had sold 6 million records and owned a villa on a hill somewhere. But it, kind of, also wouldn’t matter for shit.

If you had created a new synthesizer or modulator that revolutionized electronic music composition? Really cool. But again, it would only matter if you’d enjoyed the process of it.

I’m kind of seeing this now, but not deeply enough. My job has me tired. And I need to both a) find a better one and b) create my independent businesses. I’m working on it. In the meantime, here I am.

But I’m seeing that the process is the crux. Sounds like a cliche, but i’m feeling the reality of it. Process over outcome. Journey over destination. That’s where joy comes from. The outcome and the destination grant status. Like bragging about sex to a bunch of guys afterwards. But the process and the journey are where the joy is. Like actually making love in the moment.

So, (I think, anyway), it’s not really about where you’ve ‘already reached’. It’s about your orientation, what you’re facing, and the direction in which you’re moving. That’s why, beforehand, the transition to joy feels so impossible, and then, in retrospect, always turns out to have been so much easier.

We think that reaching the goal will make us happy, when it’s feeling our progress towards it that actually does the trick. A few steps towards something you believe in, and already the world looks and feels so different.

The despair and the fear come back, of course. Fear, at least. (It’s actually a friend who just needs to be tempered.) They’re just part of the equation.

We can do so much more than it feels like we can.

I’m going to assume that, like me, you also struggle with inertia. I’ve taken it to an art form.

Guess that’s another thing I need to remember. Sometimes I make it all about my big thoughts and feelings, when I might just need to take a little step. And like you’ve said before, fear is a big part of that. and doubt. ‘What if it doesn’t work?’


#340

Thanks man, I’ve always tried to be as straightforward as possible in life. I agree with you on everything you wrote. And for damn sure if I sold a bunch of records or got famous I know it wouldn’t make me any happier. It’s like you said, it’s the process. Making music is the joy, the finished product is just a result of that. And you can tell with music when it’s been shoved through a different path other than that. Having said that I feel like at this point in my life I’m not in that process enough. It feels very stop and go. And unfortunately I have a lot of blocks to even getting into that path so to speak. And I think that’s what frustrates me the most. I know this is all wrong, this current lifestyle isn’t bringing me happiness and it feels like a giant abrasive object just grinding away at my soul.

I don’t know if you ever get irritated at the world. I sure as hell do. When I feel like things pull me away from the path I should be on. Like this trip I had to take for my job recently. And everyone I’ve talked to in my life doesn’t get it. “Oh it’s a trip for your job? Consider yourself lucky! Not many people get to travel”. Just no, that’s time I could have spent investing in my music and looking after myself and my desires and wants.

I guess the short of it is, there’s joy in the process. But sometimes you have to get on track with it first. Sometimes you get stuck in the grooves of something that just continually claims your energy. And personally I’m not too great at escaping that, I get stuck very easily. But I keep trying.