Ethics and subliminal


#21

Well only few people are talking about their experience in listening to subliminal files


#22

My main argument was that if many people are having good results but 1% of pool is having bad side effects then its not author’s fault. Dont forget there are some drugs that you barely have any control for yourself

The issue with drugs is that there are so many people who are getting addicted, dying that makes the example irrelevant. On the contrary martial arts example is pretty close. It is your choice how you will use your weapons


#23

Actually there are quite a few journals in this forum and there isnt anything bad happened because of the subliminals from Subclub


#24

I do agree, I also made that argument earlier in this topic.

That’s also why I said that some drugs are too easy to get addicted to.


#25

@Avengers68 Do you actually think subliminal producers do have those responsibiltities to a certain extend? Or are you just playing with the question and looking at it from both sides?


#26

Drugs are not a good analogy here since they result in physical (chemical) changes.

A better analogy is someone in a cult, and whether they are responsible for their own actions despite the programming they’ve been given. Legally they are. Most people would say morally too.


#27

Well @bujin you are touching a sensitive cord in me ! A friend of mine became a member of a cult. At the beginning he was responsible for it even though we told him he was stupid… but after that it was clear there was brainwashing … the cult could say it is not our problem, it is the problem of the individual. We could not do anything for our friend


#28

I’m sorry about your friend, and for bringing up a personally painful issue.


#29

This is nonsense how can a subliminal turn you into a rapist :rofl:. People who think that are living in cuckoo land.


#30

First off, you’re wrong. There are around 200 journals in the journals section. But anyway:

We’ve already asked ourselves these questions, and we’ve already answered your question, whether you want to believe the answer or not. This whole discussion and worldview is fear mongering and the result of not wanting to take responsibility for your own actions. You want to be able to get on a sub, do something stupid, then blame the producer for the ridiculous thing you did. Part of it stems from ignorance on how subliminals work.

Subliminals can’t FORCE you to do anything – especially with the way we script our subliminals, which aren’t even really “instructions,” but more like “questions.” If our subliminal challenges your subconscious with the question, “who is standing in your way to total happiness,” and you proceeded to divorce your wife as a result, then you made the choice that your wife is the problem, not the subliminal.

For example, divorcing your wife is QUITE the drastic action. There’s a ton of other things you can do. Therapy. Taking a break. Studying a martial art for stress relief, etc. If you jump straight to divorce, face it – you wanted to divorce her anyway. That’s not the sub’s fault.

If you run a subliminal that enhances your sexuality and as a result, you commit sexual assault on someone, YOU made that choice, not the subliminal. You know what else sends your libido into overdrive? Porn. Do you see people running around blaming porn for sexual assault? Promiscuous pictures on Instagram sends your libido into overdrive. Do you see people running around blaming naked women on Instagram for sexual assault? Are you trying to suggest that the only outlet for an increased sexuality is sexual assault, and somehow the subliminal producer is responsible for your conscious decision to do it?

Literature is actually the biggest catalyst for social change. Are we going to run around and blame / sue authors for “forcing” us to do something?

Subliminals inform the subconscious, then you consciously express a decision. But again, look what’s being said: You STILL have to consciously express a decision. You’re not being FORCED to do anything. If subliminals were forcing you to do things, then you’d have an argument, but the fact of the matter is, you’re attempting to minimize the role of the conscious mind to push an agenda. You ALWAYS have a choice, regardless of what you feel you’re being urged to do. If I decide to break the law, I made that choice, knowing full well of the consequences, period.

Speaking of the law – yes, a medical disclaimer does indeed alleviate responsibility on the producer’s part, as you are explicitly warned not to use subliminals unless if you’ve been evaluated by a licensed, legitimate medical professional. As a responsible adult, you have the right to say, “I believe I am of sound mind and am capable of making rational decisions.” If you choose the latter, once again, YOU are making the CONSCIOUS CHOICE to engage in a form of self-development that is still in it’s infancy.

At the end of all things, in every scenario you posted, the user made a conscious decision to engage in behavior they subsequently regretted. Own your shit. Don’t blame anyone else.


#31

This is the most important and underrated mechanism of selfsabotage and self-deception.
If you have to admit that nobody is blamable the ball is in your field. Thats not what most of the people want. They need enemys and someone who is guilty. Self-reflection is a skill we all have to learn and to develop. Otherwise there is no personal progress.


#32

Actually, ethicists, philosophers, and social scientists do indeed ask just these types of questions.

I have my own opinions and am encouraged to see that they are by and large similar to those of Saint, who should have a lot more data and experience than me.

But the questions @Avengers68 raises are legitimate and intelligent questions to consider.

Everyone seems to agree on the importance of personal responsibility. Well, I think part of developing it is to think about these issues and to come to your own views on them. For yourself.

We’re not just born knowing the answers to these things.

I do think these issues raised are largely fear-based; but fear did have its value and its roles to play. Just need to make sure it does not go out of control.

The ironic and hilarious part to me is still that @Avengers68 began to think about all of these questions after he started Quantum Limitless. :joy: @SaintSovereign did you do your job too well? The man is analyzing and questioning everything, including you! :sweat_smile:

Seriously though, I trust that it will lead him to some useful insights and positions.

Another possible good use of this thread would be for people to offer books, videos, websites or other resources that teach about the nature of the subconscious and how to work with it in a healthy, responsible way.

The YouTube channel Mind and Magick has good info and links to a bunch of other good resources. For people who like to come at it from the magick/occult angle.


#33

@SaintSovereign well I understand of course your point of view but I thought that a subliminal bypasses the conscious mind ?
I enjoy so much QL … sometimes I feel burst of motivation and euphoria during the day… I do not control at all these bursts !!! I hope one day I will control them but for now they are subconcious mecanisms created by your program ! If not what is the use of listening to subliminals if it is conscious ?
My view is general, not against subclub, i am a fan of subclub and you are the only forum allowing a discussion on this ethical aspect of subliminals


#34

@Avengers68

  1. the impulses that arise are from your subconscious mind

  2. what you CHOOSE TO DO with those impulses is your choice and your responsibility


#35

Well I don’t think it works like that. Your subconscious can only suggest to your conscious and that’s all. It can’t and won’t force you to do anything. Kinda like the person who goes out and kills someone and then says the devil made him do it. Uh… No… He had a thought or voice or whatever you wanna call it and decided to take action. If the subconscious suggests you too do something and you don’t do it it will stop suggesting. That’s why lots of people get results at first and then come on here and complain that it stopped. It’s because they didn’t take action with the suggestions they received from their subconscious. There are more things involved. And are you talking about yourself from subliminals by subclub? Be fare to yourself please. There are no negative suggestions in these subs. I know.


#36

@lowrider I am not talking about myself, I just ask questions I think are interesting. Many years ago a friend was listening to subliminals from YouTube and I can tell you that he was changing and changing very fast in a negative side… and we discovered that many Youtubers were falling in the same trap. His mother asked me to help him. I asked him to stop after reading all the negative reviews made against this lady and her daughter who was doing these videos. Even some Youtubers were able to enhance the messages and we could here some highly negative messages. For several days this friend was sick and depressed because he was addicted to these videos. It was like stopping drugs.
My point is that the subliminals are bypassing the conscious mind and the subconscious mind will accept the messages without filter from the conscious mind. My friend loved the pleasure given by the subliminal and became addict to it but hated the feelings given by the messages : he started to hate himself and the people around him, isolating himself and that’s why his mother called me for help. So there is a disconnect between conscious and subconscious mind.


#37

Youtube subs are something that shouldn’t really be used, honestly. Anyone can upload a negative sub on that platform and people will use it because it’s free. SubClub is a lot different than YouTube subs. I’ve never felt any sort of negativity in my mind using them. Trust me, I would be the first to say something about these subs and spread awareness to everyone if they were affecting me in a negative way.


#38

I have never felt any negative effects only very positive effects with Sub Club, it is just a general discussion on sub


#39

First, I think any good subliminal creator will put some scripting in place that states the changes will be done in a safe and responsible way.

Now, everybody’s idea of what is safe and responsible is different. Many serial killers believe that what they do is for a good reason even though the vast majority of us would disagree. You could give them a Perfect Murder X sub and they would happily integrate it.

Obviously SubClub won’t be making the Perfect Murder X sub, it goes against the company values.

If you believe that Saint and Fire are “good” people, then you can also believe their idea of “good” will be reflected in the products they create. So…

Do you believe they are good people? If not, why are you here?

On active participation...

Second, like hypnosis you are never completely without control. Yes, it is chatting to your subconscious, but if you do as others have suggested, setting goals and keeping track of the changes, you will be able to steer the results.

If the subliminal is turning you into a more natural human male, then you can still tell yourself that’s not what you want. The only reason why we are what we call “civilized” is because our conscious minds are forcing us to adhere to societal standards, many of them against our natural instincts (like male monogamy). But that’s a discussion for another topic.

Anyways, if you steer your changes right, the special someone in your life will realize you are becoming more untamed and will amp up the excitement and diversity in your sex life all by themselves in an effort to keep you.


We all know that what you tell yourself is very important, and I can tell you from personal experience that even if I run subs 24/7, they still can’t overcome active conscious resistance. The keyword being “active”.

For example, right now my subs are making it so that all my vices are becoming like chores. Things like playing a computer game or watching TV meet with resistance and 9/10 things that I liked before now make me feel like “meh”. The end result is that I am left with extra time to become more productive. But…

Consciously I’m not quite ready to give it all up. So instead of being productive I get bored out of my skull and I end up still watching or playing that remaining 1/10 to keep busy. Or snacking on bread instead of fruits and veggies.

If I give in to the subs and become passive, they will likely succeed with time and make me lose interest in that last 1/10. But since I am not only aware but actively resisting this particular change, it’s not getting through.

Will it eventually happen? Probably, after I’ve been fighting it for months. Because that too sends a message to my subconscious. If I’m still listening then, I’m obviously not opposed to the change no matter what I tell myself. Otherwise I would have stopped the subliminal. I’m sending conflicting messages through my actions and the subliminal wins.

If you’re listening to a sub that makes you more poly-amorous or competitive or ambitious and you don’t like becoming that, you can hold it back by actively maintaining the habit it intends to change. Similarly, if you like the change, you can actively support it.

This is the whole action-taking process that SubClub keeps talking about. Your active participation either for or against the sub.

Although I would suggest you re-evaluate your goals and reasons why you are listening to the subliminal if it appears to be suggesting changes you don’t believe you want.


You are choosing to have constant exposure to subliminals, hopefully after carefully considering the authors and subliminals in question. And on top of that, you are filtering the messages from those subliminals through your own value system. A value system that was created while you were still too young to listen to subs and is as hard to break as being left- or right-handed. The only way to bypass it is if you are somehow “wired” wrong, and that is exactly why the medical disclaimer exists.

I guess it comes down to this: guns, music videos, video games and movies don’t kill people, but they can help someone that’s already thinking about it to take that step either by making it easier or by numbing their mind’s natural resistance through constant exposure.

Similarly, subliminals won’t make you do anything you are not already open to doing, and even then it takes constant exposure.

Finally…

Many people following a religion take solace in the idea that when something good happens, they must have done something right, but when something bad happens it was the will of a higher being and completely beyond their control. It’s certainly a lot easier than accepting that they had a responsibility for manifesting both the good and the bad, whether or not their higher being had a part to play.

For the record, I’m NOT comparing SubClub to a higher being and our community to a religion. Not now, not ever. On the contrary…

What I am saying is that you are an active participant on this journey. If you trust SubClub to be the GPS that leads you to your destination, accept the fact that you must set the destination. And if you disagree you can change course and take a different path to that destination. The GPS/subliminal will recalculate to adhere to your wishes.

It is unfair to place the responsibility at SubClub’s feet. They don’t know you anywhere near well enough for that. Take responsibility for your own actions and your own life. It’s one of the hardest things to do, but also one of the best things you can do to grow as a human being.


#40

I know that this post will not fit many positions on this forum but imho its essential to question some habits. NOFAP blames porn and masturbation for own failure. Fapping and porn are the enemys. Another form of self-deception. The article is worth reading.
Here a quote from the article below:

The NoFap strategies might have some positive benefits for people, but only incidentally. The brain doesn’t need to “reboot” the way they argue, though taking a period of time away from any repetitive behavior may help a person become more mindful and more aware of the impact of these behaviors. These guys reporting that they are able to “get laid” when they stop using porn has little to do with the porn, and everything to do with the fact that they are making conscious choices about their lives, their sexuality, their relationships, and their needs. I encourage that, for all people. As a man, and a therapist, I just wish it didn’t come along so loaded with these false messages that men are inherently weak, that their brains subject to being warped by porn, and that the quality of their sexuality is measured only by the strength of their erections.